Whether or not most us can agree that the WT religion is a cult, I think that most of us can agree it is a SCAM. The WT scammed me, resulting in me getting baptized into the religion in my early teens and to devoting much of my life to it, and it resent it. I acknowledge I was scammed. Unfortunately and sadly I spread their false message while I was an active JW (due to the control they had over me during that time), especially while I was a ministerial servant and a regular pioneer.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Disillusioned JW
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Disillusioned JW
Have you noticed that when the WT and the non-JW churches write (and talk) about the destruction of Jerusalem they do so in regards to the year 70 CE, but not also in regards to the year 135 (or 136) CE? I think they rarely (if ever) mention the latter one, since it would complicate their explanation of Matthew 24:1-35 and of its supposed fulfillment of the generation of Jews from Jesus' days that would see the destruction of Jerusalem. The fact is that the destruction in 135 CE was far more devastating for the Jews in Judea than the one in 70 CE, yet most Christians probably don't even know about the latter one. The tribulation of 135 (or 136) CE was a far greater tribulation than the one of 70 CE! It was after the end of the war in 135 CE that the Roman emperor named Judea as Palestine (namely "Syria Palestina", in honor of the Philistines, the historical arch enemies of the Jews) and banned Jews from entering Jerusalem (except for once a year).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt says the following.
'In 132, the revolt led by Bar Kokhba quickly spread from central Judea across the country, cutting off the Roman garrison in Aelia Capitolina (Jerusalem).[12] ... Despite arrival of significant Roman reinforcements from Syria, Egypt, and Arabia, initial rebel victories over the Romans established an independent state over most parts of Judea Province for over three years, as Simon bar Kokhba took the title of Nasi ("head of state"). As well as leading the revolt, he was regarded by many Jews as the Messiah, who would restore their national independence.[13]
... The Bar Kokhba revolt resulted in the extensive depopulation of Judean communities, more so than during the First Jewish–Roman War of 70 CE.[15] ... The Jewish communities of Judea were devastated to an extent which some scholars describe as a genocide.[15][19] However, the Jewish population remained strong in other parts of Palestine, thriving in Galilee, Golan, Bet Shean Valley, and the eastern, southern, and western edges of Judea.[20] ... In an attempt to erase any memory of Judea or Ancient Israel, Emperor Hadrian wiped the name off the map and replaced it with Syria Palaestina.[23][24][25] However, there is only circumstantial evidence linking Hadrian with the name change and the precise date is not certain.[26] The common view is that the name change was intended to "sever the connection of the Jews to their historical homeland"; a few scholars dispute this.[27]
The Bar Kokhba revolt greatly influenced the course of Jewish history and the philosophy of the Jewish religion. Despite easing the persecution of Jews following Hadrian's death in 138 CE, the Romans barred Jews from Jerusalem, except for attendance in Tisha B'Av. Jewish messianism was abstracted and spiritualized, and rabbinical political thought became deeply cautious and conservative. The Talmud, for instance, refers to Bar Kokhba as "Ben-Kusiba", a derogatory term used to indicate that he was a false Messiah. It was also among the key events to differentiate Christianity as a religion distinct from Judaism.[28] Although Jewish Christians regarded Jesus as the Messiah and did not support Bar Kokhba,[29] they were barred from Jerusalem along with the other Jews.[30]
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Modern historians view the Bar Kokhba Revolt as having decisive historic importance.[15] They note that, unlike the aftermath of the First Jewish–Roman War chronicled by Josephus, the Jewish population of Judea was devastated after the Bar Kokhba Revolt,[15] being killed, exiled, or sold into slavery, with so many captives auctioned at "Hadrian's Market" that the price of the Jews were as low as the price of a horse.[75] Jewish religious and political authority was suppressed far more brutally than before. The Jews suffered a serious blow in Jerusalem and its environs in Judea, but the Jewish communities thrived in the remaining regions of Palestine—e.g., Galilee, Bet Shean, Caesarea, Golan and along the edges of Judea.[20] Captives that were not sold as slaves were deported to Gaza, Egypt and elsewhere, greatly adding to the Jewish diaspora.[75] ...
Judea would not be a center of Jewish religious, cultural, or political life again until the modern era, although Jews continued to sporadically populate it and important religious developments still took place there. ...'
waton, your reference to verse 21 in support of your claim is a good point.
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Disillusioned JW
waton, though Matthew chapter 24 mentions the great tribulation it technically doesn't mention Armageddon. Verses 29-31 seem to describe events (including the darkness and later the appearance of the Son of Man on the clouds) which Revelation claims happens just before the start of Armageddon (but it is hard to correlate Revelation with Matthew chapter 24). See Revelation 8:12 and 19:11-21 in conjunction with Revelation 16:10, 14-16 and Matthew 24:29-31.
I started to seriously question the WT/JW religion shortly before the generation teaching change in 1995, namely when the WT discussed the sense of Christ coming in glory as king and in the sense of his coming in glory during his coming in judgement. That is because after I read the WT say that I then very carefully read Matthew 24 - 25 (without using any interpretations from the WT) and I then realized that (according to Matthew 24 - 25) his coming as king is at essentially the same time he comes in glory to execute judgment (see Matthew 24:30 and 25:31), and thus according to the Bible he did not become king in 1914 C.E.. It was also about that time that the WT said that the Great Crowd doesn't t exist till after the Great Tribulation has ended (though most of the who make up the group will exist prior to then).
The WT's new teaching in 1995 about the generation further caused me to seriously question the WT, but by that time I had already began to think independently of the WT. Finally, around the year 2000 or 2001 I ceased virtually all meeting attendance at the Kingdom Hall.
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YHWH in Hebrew letters
by dropoffyourkeylee ini thought i had seen everything, but i picked up a bible at goodwill yesterday that has the tetragrammaton in hebrew in the ot.
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it has the tetragrammaton in the nt too.. published in south africa apparently, 1998.. .
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: In my prior post I should not have said the following.
'[Somewhat in contrast, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblies_of_Yahweh says 'The Assemblies of Yahweh is the largest sacred name group,[3] but it is not part of the Sacred Name Movement." The article also says "The Assemblies leaders call their faith 'True Worship', rather than Christianity or Judaism. " That sounds like what Rutherford called the WT/JW religion!]'
Instead, I should have said the following.
'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblies_of_Yahweh says "The Assemblies of Yahweh is the largest sacred name group,[3] but it is not part of the Sacred Name Movement." "The Assemblies of Yahweh" might be a different group than "The Assembly of Yahweh". The article also says "The Assemblies leaders call their faith 'True Worship', rather than Christianity or Judaism. " That sounds like what Rutherford called the WT/JW religion!'
Further information: I intended the last section of my prior post to say the following (but I ran out of time to revise the post).
" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblies_of_Yahweh says the following.
'The Assemblies of Yahweh believes in a Great Tribulation, a Beast System which is interpreted to mean a world ruling government and synchronistic religion on this earth opposed to Yahweh's commandments [10] (Revelation 12:17) and finally, a millennial 1,000 year Kingdom of Yahweh (Revelation 20:4) on this earth which will usher an era of productivity, miracles, love, peace and tranquillity through the universal keeping of the commandments with Yahshua the Messiah ruling as King over this world.[11]' "
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YHWH in Hebrew letters
by dropoffyourkeylee ini thought i had seen everything, but i picked up a bible at goodwill yesterday that has the tetragrammaton in hebrew in the ot.
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it has the tetragrammaton in the nt too.. published in south africa apparently, 1998.. .
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Disillusioned JW
"‘The Scriptures" Bible you have is part of the Sacred Name movement. I consider the one you have to be the best of that movement, but the Greek text of that Bible is very close the Greek text used by the KJV (and NKJV), rather than the ones used by the NASB and NRSV. [I used to own a copy of that edition/translation as well as the Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible. I first found a copy of the latter at a local thrift store and later I purchased a copy direct from the publisher. I owned those Bibles while I doing independent research of the Bible and of Christianity - after I stopped attending the Kingdom Hall.] The movement seems to have started within the "Church of God (Seventh-Day)" movement and at about the time the Watchtower adopted the name "Jehovah's witnesses" for the name of their religion. Some of the people in the Sacred Name movement seem to be Torah keeping Messianic Jewis (of the kind who believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah) and others are non-Jewish Christians who keep portions of Torah (including some of the OT biblical holy days).
People within the Sacred Name movement disagree with others in the movement as to what the exact pronunciation is of the divine name (and even as to what the transliteration into English is of the Tetragrammeton) and some Bibles in the movement use the Hebrew letters instead of English letters. Some have the name of Jesus (Yeshua/Yehoshua/Yahshua) in Hebrew letters also, such in "‘The Scriptures" (as seen in the photo you posted of John 1:17), due to disagreements of what his exact pronunciation is. A number of the Bible editions produced by the movement state it is extremely important to the correct pronunciation of the Divine Name in order for prayers to be heard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Name_Movement . It says the following.
"The Sacred Name Movement arose in the early 20th century out of the Church of God (Seventh Day) movement. This movement was influenced by Joseph Franklin Rutherford who changed the name of the main branch of the Bible Student movement to Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931, based on his belief in the importance of the Hebrew name of God.[2] C. O. Dodd, a member of the Church of God (Seventh Day), began keeping the Jewish festivals (including Passover) in 1928, adopting sacred name doctrines in the late 1930s.[3]
The Assembly of Yahweh was the first religious organization in the Sacred Name Movement. It was formed in Holt, Michigan, in the 1930s. The Assembly of Yahweh believes the name of Yahweh should be used along with their reconstruction of his son's name, Yahshua." [Somewhat in contrast, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblies_of_Yahweh says 'The Assemblies of Yahweh is the largest sacred name group,[3] but it is not part of the Sacred Name Movement." The article also says "The Assemblies leaders call their faith 'True Worship', rather than Christianity or Judaism. " That sounds like what Rutherford called the WT/JW religion!]The Assemblies of Yahweh group within the movement even published what is called "The Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition" in Bethel, Pennsylvania USA. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Scriptures_Bethel_Edition)! The Wikipedia article says "The Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition concludes with a "pure religious vocabulary" section, which gives the explanation of words which should be avoided for those seeking "to purify their personal worship".[9] The glossary of terms briefly traces and presents the etymology of words used frequently by Christian theologians that the translator claimed are pagan in origin."
The website of the Assemblies of Yahweh says "Can you perceive how those who reject Yahweh's commandments cannot have Yahweh's Holy Spirit? Yahweh's Holy Spirit is freely given to those who are obedient and show love to Yahweh by obeying
His commandments. ... Yahshua the Messiah never taught that the
Covenant Law of Yahweh would be annulled." They sound like an the WT/JW religion on steroids in regards to keeping all Yahweh's commandments (not just the NT ones but also the OT ones) [note the latter part of Revelation 12:17]. I wonder if they are an offshoot of the WT/JW religion. -
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Let’s make it more interesting!
by Iamallcool inwhat kind of games should we play on this discussion board?
this forum needs to be more interesting.
any ideas?
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Disillusioned JW
Earlier this week I saw the Sci-Fi movie called "2036 Origin Unknown" and I saw the first and last episodes of the Sci-Fi time travel mini-series called "11.22.63".
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Let’s make it more interesting!
by Iamallcool inwhat kind of games should we play on this discussion board?
this forum needs to be more interesting.
any ideas?
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Disillusioned JW
How about the sci-fi time travel movie called "2067"? I intend to watch the DVD of the movie tonight. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2067_(film) .
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Should Biden Have Mandated Vaccinations Today?
by Sea Breeze inbiden mandated widespread covid shots today.. "we've been patient," biden announced.
"but our patience is wearing thin, and your refusal has cost all of us.".
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Disillusioned JW
Minor correction: Instead of saying "... and more than for more" I should have said "... and for more than ...".
Regarding "... about two-thirds of all U.S. employees, those who work for businesses with more than 100 workers" notice that the article says Biden is "... pushing large employers to have their workers inoculated or tested weekly." Biden is thus giving, at least for the time being, the option of having workers tested weekly in place of requiring them to get vaccinated, though Biden in the future might say they have to get vaccinated, even if they are being tested weekly.
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Should Biden Have Mandated Vaccinations Today?
by Sea Breeze inbiden mandated widespread covid shots today.. "we've been patient," biden announced.
"but our patience is wearing thin, and your refusal has cost all of us.".
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Disillusioned JW
I notice that the article at https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-deliver-six-step-plan-covid-19-pandemic-2021-09-09/ (with the title of "Attacking anti-vaccine movement, Biden mandates widespread COVID shots, tests"), which Sea Breeze linked to, does not say Biden is making the shots mandatory for anyone other than most USA federal employees and more than for more than 17 million healthcare workers. It is evidence though of Biden removing the option of USA federal workers getting tested frequently in place of getting vaccinated. Also, the article does say that Biden is pushing large employers to have their workers inoculated or tested weekly. It is disturbing that the vaccines are being made mandatory (by Biden and by many employers) for some people, especially for so many people.
[Update: I see the article does say the following.
"The U.S. Labor Department's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) plans to take enforcement actions against private companies that do not comply with the vaccine mandate, with substantial fines of nearly $14,000 per violation.
The administration is also calling on entertainment venues to require tests or shots and for states to adopt mandates for school employees. It is also multiplying the fines charged to people who fail to wear masks on airplanes, trains and buses."]My mother and my sister received the same vaccine brand I did and when I asked them if they had problems from the vaccine (other than temporary pain at the injection site) they said no.
I don't see (or hear) any evidence of the vaccine causing any significant side effects in my workplace, nor of anyone I know anywhere face to face. None of my co-workers have told me of the vaccine causing any problems for them, other an initial brief rash (in the case of one co-worker) at the injection site and other than pain at the injection site (in the case of some people). My workplace has about 500 workers (including temporaries) and the employer reports that about 84% to 90% us are fully vaccinated (the percentage varies from day to day due to temps leaving and new ones being hired).
In contrast, one young woman (probably under age 30) co-worker of mine told me she had been hospitalized due to contracting Covid-19. She also said that while she was hospitalized due to contracting Covid-19 (or maybe it was after she was released from the hospital) that she was eventually told she qualified to receive the vaccine. She said she wishes she had been told she qualified to receive the vaccine in time to avoid being hospitalized. She told me (and others) she was in the ICU for 3 weeks, due to having severe respiratory problems! She even told me she thinks she was in coma during much of her hospitalization, since she has little memory of what happened while she was in the ICU. She also said that Covid-19 caused her to loose much of her hair.
Regarding the claim that Covid-19 has only killed a tiny percentage of the population (USA population?) people should keep in mind that the percentage would be drastically higher if it wasn't for excellent modern medical care (using highly advanced technology) available in the USA - compared to what existed 100 years ago.
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It takes a while, but eventually a person finds his way out.
by pistolpete init hard to believe------you don't have the truth.. sometimes, for many----it takes half of your life -- or more---to figure it out.
it was like swimming upstream with lead boots pulling you back in.
and the closer you got to the "real" truth----the further away you strayed from your intimate group.
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Disillusioned JW
Hi Jes9087654. I can relate to what you are experiencing. Here are some ideas that might help you.
- You do what is called fading. It involves gradually reducing your involvement with the religion. Examples are gradually reducing time in: field service, meeting attendance, and commenting at meetings. You can also resign from the Theocratic Ministry (or what ever it is now called), without telling anyone why you resigned.
- You can re-establish (or strengthen) social contact with your non-JW family members and with wholesome non-JW friends you once had.
- Take care of your health. Do what you reasonably can to prolong your health span and your lifespan. Study reliable sources of information about what can be done to prevent health problems and to cure health problems.
- You can do a number of things which Vanderhoven7 recommends.